Tennis Forehand Technique Dillema – Full Extension Or Not
Roman R asks: In your article about tennis forehand and backhand technique you say: “at the point of contact the racquet is parallel to the ground and the arm is bent in the elbow.”
Please explain to me, how, this aspect of the stroke, which has been in the game for so long, and is still used by the majority of tennis players, except the best 2!, should be spread to new tennis players. Why not teach the way of federer and nadal.
They both his their forehands with almost no elbow bend. This gives them more fluidity, more acceleration, more reach, and less shoulder problems.
If you hit a forehand with a bent elbow, you end up hitting the ball using your rotary cuff as a substantial source of power – this is why many players have shoulder injuries. If you hit with your elbow straight, there is no stress on your rotary cuff – all the shoulder strain is on your bigger muscles, your pecs.
Golf, racquetball, baseball, all have you hit at full extention, and yet you are saying to hit with a bent elbow? Just cause many do it, doesn’t make it right. What makes it right is that the first people to do it are magically at the top of the game.
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Hi Roman,
I understand your point. I believe the reason why only 2 players (and what a coincidence, top 2 in the world) play like that, is because they are super talented and can control the ball despite letting go of their racquet almost completely.
I believe there were thousands of attempts to copy Federer and Nadal and yet I don’t see those players anywhere.
Also; Federer plays with an eastern grip which FORCES you to play with a slightly more straight arm and most players play with a semi-western grip where the arm HAS to be bent more.
Nadal plays technically very strange and it’s not that he was taught that way, but he developed his technique by himself. It works well for spin but not so well for flatter shots. His forehand is a weakness when receiving a fast ball. Uncle Toni is actually working on correcting his technique…
There were thousands of attempts to copy Andre Agassi and Monica Seles where they were able to take the ball so early and play incredible angles – and yet no one is playing like that. Why? Because playing like this requires super human talent that almost no one possesses.
Steffi Graf had one of the greatest forehands in the women’s game yet she was constantly late on the shot. Because she was late, she had to speed up her stroke to catch up with the ball and her super human talent enabled her to solve that problem (of being late) and actually turn into an advantage. But you wouldn’t teach a player on purpose to be late…
She played with bent elbow too by the way.
Steffi Graf Forehand - Photo by Gary M Prior/Getty Images
“If you hit with your elbow straight, there is no stress on your rotary cuff – all the shoulder strain is on your bigger muscles, your pecs. ”
I disagree. The shoulder has to support a much longer lever when the arm is straight and that causes more strain and not less. Try holding your arm straight and let someone push your racquet back. See how strong you are.
Then bend you arm and have someone push your racquet back – you’ll see that you are much stronger – more muscles support the racquet – therefore there are less chances of injury.
Also, let me remind you that we see what we want to see. You can easily find forehand shots where both Federer and Nadal have their elbow bent. If you look for them, you will find them. Technique adapts all the time to the function of the shot.
Just because two people play like that, doesn’t make it right or possible for other “normal” people to follow. The key to teaching is to start the player with solid technical foundation and then allow him to develop his own style.
Roddick was not taught to serve like he serves to today. He was taught with classic technique, good rhythm and so on and from there, he found his own style. His coach was smart enough to let him develop that.
Here are a few more videos on forehands with elbow bent:
There are also some thoughts on forehand technique in one of my previous articles. You’ll also see pictures of Andre Agassi there who had one the best forehands of all time – playing with a bent elbow…
- Related posts:
July 24th, 2009 at 5:37 am
I don’t know about though about thousands of players successfully trying to mimic fed/nadal’s strokes. I have seen many people post videos on youtube showing there “federer” technique, and yet, they still hit with bent elbow.
There is another successful modern player who hits with a straight elbow – verdasco. Of course, I agree, i’m not saying its easy. However, trying to learn the hard way (but possibly better in the future, way) may take a bit longer, and then take your game to amazing heights.
You are correct about the leverage at full extention. When I meant less stress, I meant it in a different way, but that in a bit. At full extention, the greater moment of inertia of the racquet (mr^2) doesn’t permit you to make small adjustments as easily compared to when you keep the racquet closer.
This means that, in the close case: you can hit the ball with less coordination and still hit the ball well since you can counter any mis timing with some muscle push. In the extended case, since you can’t modify the racquet’s motion so easily, that forces you to learn to time your shots better, and then, once you initiate the swing – to just let go of your arm and let it spring foreward.
There is a video of federer on youtube practicing, and at one point, his forehand completely misses the ball – that is because there was a bad bounce, and once he started his motion, he didn’t put in any conscious effort on the racquet motion. This is why his strokes look so effortless.
(at ~3:25)
Have you ever seen “The Legend of Bagger Vance”? Moderately old movie with Will Smith a as a super wise caddy who comes out of no where and disappears just to help out a town hero win a golf tournament. Well, in there, he said something cool. A boy was with him on the golf course trying to hit a ball in, and kept missing. So he told the boy, swing.
The boy replied “but there’s no ball”. “Just swing, feel the weight of the club. You don’t need the ball to swing…close your eyes, feel the motion….” (in more words or less). Then, as the boy was swinging the club slowly with his eyes closed, the charecter played by Smith placed a golf ball infront of the club. And of course, the ball went into the hole.
While i’m not saying that you should be playing without looking – i’m just saying that once you see where the ball is going, or even more importantly, once you choose to start your swing, there shouldn’t be any reason to actually look at the ball.
Federer, as an example, doesn’t look at the ball at contact. Many people say, “oo look at how well federer tracks the ball. And then, after the stroke, he still looks at where the ball was, amazing” However, if you look closely at slow motion videos, federer actually looks away from where the ball is, to where the contact will be (distance seperated by two moving objects at the time). Even more amazingly, federer closes his eyes at impact on his serve!
Sure, hitting at full extention might be harder, but just cause something is harder to learn and do, doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t teach it if it can push the sport to new heights. Most people aren’t hitting with a bent elbow because they CAN’T hit it straight, they do it because that is the way they are taught from the beginning.
About the stress – what I meant was this. If you hit the ball at full extention, unles you are hitting the ball behind you, your shoulder joints aren’t locking to push the ball – the stress is on your tendons and pec (as your elbow per se is quite strong). However, when you hit with your elbow bent, it is very easy to end up hitting the ball with your actual joint cartilege as support.
Try this, face your monitor, extend both your arms like wings to make a T. Now, move them back, and let them bounce foreward. You should look like you are flapping wings (even though birds actually do something else, but that is another story). You should feel you arms bounce forewards from about 10-15 degree behind you. You should feel tension in your pec muscle as the source of the force.
Now, try this. Keep your arms bent at 90 degrees, with you elbows touching your sides, and your arm facing forewards with your palms facing each other as if about to clap. Without moving your elbows away from your sides, move you arms towards each other to clap, then move them away from each other until you can’t, and let them bounce back.
You should notice that your arm stops (depending on your flexibility) at about 45 degrees from straight ahead. Imagine, now, at this locking 45 degree position (or even further back as not everyone hits perfectly infront of them all the time), your body is rotating counter clockwise (if ur a righty). The ball pushes your racquet clockwise. All this works together to do something quite odd.
If you were to suddenly replace the ball, racquet, and flexible wrist with something very heavy, very stiff, and unflexible (respectively), you will end up comfortably tearing your shoulder apart. Now, this doesn’t happen (usually) since most things are light, flexible, and loose. However, the further away you move from 90 degree elbow bend, the more impact and acceleration forces are distributed to more flexible (possibly, but not necessarily) stronger muscles, and away from your joints.
I am not a tennis pro, but I love the game, and do hit at full extention. I use the k6one 90 with kevlar strings at 55lbs, and while many people regularly told me that the combination of the weight of the racquet and stiffness of the strings would ruin my shoulder and give me tennis elbow, I do not feel any discomfort what so ever.
At the same time, I have to admit, when I am out of position, my elbow bends. When i’m in position with full extention, I can shank the ball not so rarely. But I am no pro, and while I believe I would have been had I started earlier (knowing then what i know now), I don’t have nearly enough experience to do anything about it. (I am 21 years old, started playing when I was 18 without a coach, but started playing seriously, more or less, about a year ago).
I can send you a video of me hitting the ball to show you what I mean. I wake up 5am to play morning tennis everyday – so I have the passion, just not the right # of hours of play under my belt. This makes me pretty certain, that for those that do start young, with the right amount of practice, and with the initial full extention training, will be very successful – right up until everyone starts hitting at full extention.
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July 26th, 2009 at 9:37 am
I would have to agree with Roman saying that it’s nicer on your shoulder to hit at full extension but for a different reason.
If I hit the ball and I hit it too far in front of me then all that happens is that there is less extension on the shot.
If one mistimes it and hits too close then it hurts your shoulder immensely, especially if one takes a big swing. Happened to me during racquetball and I damaged my left shoulder for a week. Luckily I serve and play tennis righty, so could still play that.
When playing probably one of the last things that I think about is the degree of my elbow bend or hitting groundstrokes with more arm vs more wrist, technique is important but too much of it can be trivial.
There are more important topics to think about such as hitting a good shot with placement, drive and spin. As well as being balanced and prepared.
-Nick
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August 6th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
What Federer and Nadal are doing here is letting go of their arms when hitting a forehand. Federer especially, who lets go of his arm from preparation to finish, letting it freely wraps around his body, where as Nadal’s finish above his head is often more rigid and controlled.
That’s why compared to, say, Roddick’s forehand, you’ll see Federer making some rediculous shanks during the course of a match. I’ve seen him completely misshit and shanked a slow second serve into the audience more than a few times. But of course he’s good enough with it that these occasional mistakes don’t matter, but that just points to the extreme difficulty in hitting these forehands.
I don’t think teaching them to beginners is a good idea. It’s too hard to pick up, and will eventually becomes a limit if the player don’t have enough talent. Federer and Nadal developed their forehand on their own, through the course of their junior career because they have that talent, but most people will benifit more from the double bent forehand, as it is called.
The double bent is a sound technique that lets you play tennis at the world class level. After all, hitting with good placement, power, and consistancy is the most important, and the double bent easily lets you accomplish those.
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August 20th, 2009 at 5:57 am
Is the observation correct? I think Fed hits BOTH straight & bent arm forehands. Maybe I’m seeing things, but the straight-arm seems his default ONLY in back-court rallies (as in the video above). In the longer piece from practice, he seems to use both. Coming into the net, on approach, he seems to me to more often use a bent arm. Am I wrong?
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Tomaz Reply:
August 20th, 2009 at 8:14 am
Hi K,
Both me and Roman agree that Federer occasionally hits with a bent arm – when the situation requires it. Everyone must realize that technique is not constant; it changes and ADAPTS to the situation.
Here are just some situations from which you need to play a forehand and for each of them consider how the forehand may look like:
- rallying from the baseline
- defending while moving back 3 meters behind the baseline playing a high top spin ball cross court
- defending from a fast volley played into the body at the player on the baseline
- attacking with a short cross court being inside the court 2 meters from the sideline
- attacking a shoulder high ball inside the court hitting flat down the line
- attacking with a forehand by running around backhand and hitting inside out the ball which was played with a low slice
So the next time someone asks you to demonstrate a shot (forehand), you need to ask him / her: from WHAT position on what kind of INCOMING ball and playing WHAT KIND of ball to the other side. ONLY THEN you can demonstrate the correct technique!
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August 22nd, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Thanks – that’s really helpful & sound.
I’ve also found it useful to think in terms of a straight, or straighter, armed forehand to increase topspin & counter any tendency to hit the stroke “tucked up”.
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February 24th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
I have gotten hell for my forehand, which is hit with a straight arm. It is my natural technique and produces very deadly topspin- yet people still tell me that I need to bend my elbow. The problem I have with bending the elbow is that I cannot produce the mixture of penetration and topspin that I get with my straight arm shot. So to all you fellow straight arm-ers out there, don’t get discouraged just because people try to convince you to change. Here are some tips.
1. Avoid “arming” the ball; the driving force behind your forehand should be the rotation of your torso and shoulders, not the arm itself.
2. Watch the ball like crazy. Straight arm technique, for me at least, produces a lot of mishits. This is because it is difficult to track the ball when it is so far away from you. However, if you can time it right and hit the ball on the strings, you should be alright.
3. Hit the ball out in front of you. This should be pretty obvious, but this will prevent mishits.
4. Don’t be afraid to shorten up your swing. Especially when receiving serve, you may not have enough time to straighten out your arm. On those, just shorten up the swing to get the ball in play, and set up for your straight arm forehand.
5. While the top 2 players, as well as Fernando Verdasco, use this forehand, you should definitely emphasize your natural technique and improve upon that- don’t say that just because Federer’s arm is straight, yours should be as well.
6. Practice. The straight arm forehand can be frustrating at times, but I think that those who have mastered it (Verdasco, for instance) can be thankful for not switching it- so stick with it and practice hard until you have it down.
That Tennis Kid
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Tomaz Reply:
February 25th, 2010 at 5:31 am
Great tips, Chris, thanks for sharing!
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April 30th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Federer, Nadal, Verdasco all hit with a straight arm most of the time.
I personally think it’s the future of high level tennis. I also agree that teaching the double bend forehand is easier to learn, for beginners and recreational players. Aesthetically I believe the straight arm forehand is greater. I also agree that you are more prone to shank balls hitting with a straight arm as it is difficult to gauge the proper spacing and depth of the ball. You have to take it very early and really focus on your contact point. Some have said this takes a great deal of talent. I personally do not believe talent makes a difference, only hard work and mental toughness. Federer is not the most talented player on tour. He is highly intelligent and works very hard to appear effortless on the court. I would look at Safin, Nalbandian, and gasquet for talent.
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January 24th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Hi guys,
I am not a tennis person at all. The reason I’m here is because I am a motor learning researcher and a friend of mine, who is a tennis person, told me about this debate.
I don’t think I have anything ground-shaking to add, but I did want to make a minor point: baseball hitters DO NOT hit at full extension (in ideal conditions). Hitters have their back elbow tucked and bent somewhere near 90 degrees (there is variance). Here is a link to an analysis of Albert Pujols (on a site I am in no way affiliated with):
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/ProfessionalHitterAnalyses/HD/Baseball/HD_AlbertPujols_1B_HR_ToLCF_090001.html
Point is, hitters don’t hit with their back arm extended. That said, tennis is a different beast. However, as a baseball person I do have some experience with “debates” over technical issues. For example, there are still many coaches who will argue over the position of the back elbow during the stance. Some say the back elbow should be up, some say down. Indeed, one can find examples of both in the major leagues. It has long been my stance that technical differences between elite hitters can be best referred to as “stylistic” variants, rather than “fundamental” ones. There is a list of things that EVERY single professional hitter does the same. To me, those are fundamentals. There are also many things that hitters do differently (for example, Cal Ripken Jr. was known as the man of 100 stances). For what it’s worth, I find it beneficial to focus on the commonalities between elite performers, rather than the differences. I have no way to know for certain, but I would bet that Nadal and Agassi do A LOT of things the same. The difference in elbow joint angle may actually be more of a stylistic issue than a fundamental one.
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